Episode 3: Off the Rails

All right. We are live Episode three, baby. That's three weeks in a row. Good streak Three weeks in a row. Thanks for the reminder. Yeah. Thursday creeps up, dude. It's crazy. You came in clutch this week. Oh. Looks like you're working out of a hotel room because you're in Nashville. Yes. I'm in Nashville. Looks like you're working out of, Nashville as well. Yeah. With all the guitars. That- that- that's kinda... I'm actually performing at the Nashville bar. Nice. Well, how are you, Hade? Dude, I'm good. I just met with one of your buddies as per recommendation, Brandon Lupinacci, and he is a genius when it comes to ads, and so it's fun meeting somebody that is very integrated in the implementation of something that you love to make the creative for. I think it's gonna be a pretty synergistic relationship in that he is building out, like, this AI platform that can run your ads for you, and I am trying to make fun content that is good for ads, but I don't know how to implement anything, so I think, I think it's gonna work out. And that was a big win, big conversation. Thanks for the, the introduction and the recommendation. Absolutely. Yeah. I think he can help on strategy and also just more of the backend process of how do you actually run ads successfully, 'cause you, you basically need a degree at this point to run ads on Google. And when you're... Like, yes, you need to be dialed into that process, but also you need to know when to reach out to someone because you should be focused on the product and the company and the culture and that stuff. So get help when you need it. Yeah. So what, how are you feeling? What's going on in your world? Good, man. I'm feeling good. Definitely a shock to the system as far as s- startups are a different animal that I wasn't fully prepared for, to be completely honest with you. Like, it is a lot of pressure. It's a lot of fast learning. It's constant feedback. It's constant growth. It's constant pivoting. It's, it feels like life or death all the time, and I don't know that I love that feeling. I'm still adapting to it. But it's, it's a unique challenge, dude. To be completely honest with you, like, I am doubting my decision. It's a lot, dude. Really? Yeah. It is a lot. So run me through kind of what, what your thought process is on that. Just it's really intense, dude. It's really intense in the sense of it's not so much, like, emotional, like you're messing up basically, like what, what's wrong with you? It's like, "You're better than this." Like, "Pick it up, dude." Just, like, the feedback that I'm getting is, "You don't need my permission. Go." And it's like, why isn't this done? And why isn't, why didn't you reply to this email that came in 10 minutes ago? You need to be on this, like chop-chop, you know? Mm. And that's really intense. I'm not used to that. And- Pretty militaristic. It is very militaristic, yeah, I get it, but at the same time, I don't know. It's just a lot to handle. It's a lot to process. Like, I'm trying to learn this new platform that you could argue, like, isn't designed in the best way because they're trying to pull in all this data from DOTs all over the country and organize it in a simple way. Like, that's a really hard problem, right? Yeah. And so it's, it's created this interface that's not totally intuitive, and I have to run a meeting tomorrow, like, teaching people how to use it, you know? Mm-hmm. And- And you yourself don't fully understand it because it's not easily understood. Yes. Yeah. So that's challenging. But just, like, the amount of time too. Like, we show up at... Like, we get started at, like, 7:00, and we usually work till 7:00, and then we go to a work meeting after, and then I get home at 9:00, and it's just like, dude, I ca- like, I get it, but this is a lot. Yeah. That's... Yeah. 14 hour days- And- ... every day of just you should be on this, you should be map- Yeah what, what's going on? That's- And it's not all that. Like, that's kind of peppered throughout the day. Like, when it's normal work hours, like, that pressure's definitely there. But yeah, dude, I don't know. It's... I've been, like, questioning it hard actually, to the point where it's like I'm doubting myself, you know? Yeah. That's startups, dude. That's- That is tough. But I think give yourself a timeline, 'cause think of it as, like, a really vigorous summer program. You know? Maybe you give yourself the summer and then I don't think there's any shame in doing something else. Yeah. That's true. I just... I don't know that I can, like, provide what they need. Yeah. Do you think anybody can, though? I mean, you're probably one of the more qualified people as far as, like, your history and exactly what they need. Yeah. Yeah. I think the personality stuff is hard, too. Like, I really like Tristan, but he's very, like, focused and very, like, "This is exactly how I want it done. Do it now." Mm-hmm. He's kinda got like- And then, and then you do it now, and then it's like, "Why didn't you respond to this email?" It's like, "Well, I was just doing what you told me." You know? Mm-hmm. And it's very, like... I think that pressure is good, but it also, like, I don't have any autonomy. I feel, like, trapped, you know? And I think I, I don't like that, for sure. Yeah. I definitely don't like that because... And the part that I'm questioning is, like, a customer success manager, like, I'm gonna be dealing with problem... like, everyone's problems. Yeah. That's why- Yeah. It's one of those things that I can't really offer any insight in because I'm not with you the whole day, but sounds gnarly, dude. Dude, it's intense, bro. I, like, I've never, I've never experienced anything like it. And it's, like, getting to the point where I'm like, "What am I doing?" Oh, I'm sorry, dude. Yeah. But it's also, like, good. Like, I've learned a ton. I've met a ton of cool people. And, like, should I be pushing this hard right now? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Like, what, what am I gonna learn from being able to, like, get through this, you know? Mm-hmm. And that's where I'm debating, like, do I stick it out for as long as I can? Like, do I give it three months, you know, and give it everything I got? Or is this, like, not a fit, you know? Yeah. Just kind of a steep learning curve in the other way in that you have to climb up the curve. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely makes me question everything- Like, it definitely makes me question my competence and the amount of effort that I've put in in my career at seeing how much effort people are really putting in. Yeah. Which is very intimidating. I think that's like a 0.1% effort person, though. Yeah. You know, like I would say of 500 people that I know, you probably put more in effort than 498 of them. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But it's never enough, you know? Mm-hmm. That's what I, that's what I don't like. It's never like- There's no praise. Well, there is, but it's just like, it's relentless, dude. And that's where I can't decide if like that is good or bad. Yeah. You know? Like am I gonna come out from this like a way more confident person or am I gonna like crash and burn? Yeah. And the thing that's interesting is like in order to operate at this level you have to, you have to have really insanely good habits, you know? Yeah. Because otherwise things fall apart and then you get, you get fired. Yeah. It's just tough when you don't... When, like what you said, it's just sink or swim. Yeah. You're just constantly treading water. Yeah. But no, it's... I think we've exhausted this. Thank you for being curious. I need to like figure out what I'm gonna do and if I'm gonna... Like in my head I've been like, "Do I tell Tristan at the end of this, like I can't do this and like cut ties? Or do I..." 'Cause like we already have... I'm home for a week and then I'm gone for another week. Mm. Like I get back on like the weekend we're going to Zion, I get back Sunday and I'm flying out Monday for another week. Yeah, dude, that's just- And we're going and hitting Atlanta, South Carolina, New Orleans. Like we have five... We have like four or five states that we're hitting in that timeframe. That's a- We're meeting with clients all day. How many people are on the team? Eight. Or would this just be you and Tristan? This would be me, Tristan, and Mauricio. Okay. It's different, dude. I think you gave yourself a timeline, but I, I think- I don't know what it's actually like, so- Yeah ... you know, you know your situation, you know your, what you're doing. Yeah. Like, it's very clear to me that the more comfortable option would to be like go stick it out with Andrew and then bring this work ethic there and apply that to whatever we're doing, which I know I would excel in, or go work for Tyson and get in data center work, or I don't know. Yeah. I would give it, I would give it enough time to where you can kind of gather your grounds again, 'cause I think it is really easy to... 'Cause this is what, week one? Yeah. You gotta give it more than one week. I think that first week is gonna be the scariest week all the time. But I think if you can look at it after a month or two months, it's like, yeah, okay, I committed two months to this, and I know for certain that this isn't... But in those, like, that first week, it's like, yeah, I'm still trying to measure up where I even stand in this, and- Yeah ... I think you gotta give it an honest month. Yeah. Okay. It's weird, it's weird being a founder and having equity and feeling like I'm not working for myself at all. Yeah. Like, this is Tristan's vision. This is his company. Like, yes, I have equity in the company if I make it a year. Is that worth it? Yeah. Because the trajectory that they're on, like, they could be doing, we could be doing $10 million next year in revenue, and I get a cut of that, you know? Which would be huge. But at, at, like, what's your price point, essentially? Yeah. Like, when does that become worth it? Yeah. I think with, like, all that you are sacrificing. Yeah. And that's where, like, my health and my family and my relationship with my family and my loved ones, like, that stuff is more important. Yeah. I don't know But I think there, there are other opportunities. Like, I think that Tristan and Edgevanta might be a really radicalized case. Whereas you look at Colin, and Stripe is a cutting edge company, and Colin loves it, but he's not working 80-hour weeks, you know? Yeah. But he's still got a really good work-life balance, but he gets a lot done, and his output is still huge. Yeah. So there, there are mediums. I think you might be on one of the extremes right now, and I don't think that that should dissuade you from still pursuing what you love to do, which is, like, code and build and- Yeah. And that's where, that's where, like, the real shock has come of, like, yeah, I get to do that stuff, but my job is customer success. Yeah. You know? And Tristan kind of has been like, "Hey, you figure this out," and, like, "You've got a spot in product." And yeah, but I don't, I don't know, dude. I just... I don't know. Like I don't know that I'm seeing the... I don't know. He's kind of hard to work with. Mm. Just so peculiar or particular. Yeah. And a lot of pressure. Yeah. And instead of, like, instead of him giving feedback, like, instead of it being like, "Hey, let's go through this workflow because there's an issue," he's like, "This is broken." Like, "Fix it." "This is why it's broken. Fix it." Got, like, a borderline arrogance of- Yeah ... like, borderline god complex a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Mm. And he, he said some stuff, like, twice where he's like, "Take over the world, man." And I'm just like, "Take over the world?" Like, what the f- Like, you're... It's not even that good, you know? How, are his relationships with his family? And does he have, like, a spouse? Yeah, he's engaged, but I think she's, like, equally as driven. Mm-hmm. It's crazy how people are driven by different things. I don't know, dude. I feel like I've run, like, a marathon every day this week, and I'm like... I, I don't know. Really? Dude, I don't think there's any shame in throwing in the towel. I think- Get through this week and see, but- I mean, trust your gut, dude. And if your gut is saying this is not worth it at all, whether that be via compensation, via just I am... The opportunity cost of working here is gonna be my entire identity and social life, not worth it. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, man, I don't know. I don't know. Man. It's really hard, bro. Like... Has dad had any good insight? 'Cause I'm sure dad's been thrown into it before. Yeah. Dad's kinda just said, like, give it a timeframe, like, see if you can do it. Well- Yeah. It's crazy, dude. So by the end of this episode each of us will leave with one clear learning and one measurable commitment. What are you committing to this week? Oh, gee. I think same commitment as last week. Just wanna make birthday for this one really fun. Nice. So been working towards that. Nice. That's on Saturday. I'm excited. What's, what's your commitment and measurable commitment? Just make it home. I just wanna get home, dude. Yeah. What'd you learn last week? Last week I learned about brand and click-through rate, and then just barely with Lupo, I learned about like- All the different data that I've just been totally missing, and it's so helpful. Like, I can see where the people are buying it from and, like, all this stuff and, like, the conversion rates and just different conversions that I wouldn't even have thought to look at that give a much broader picture of what's going on. It kind of shows the landscape, whereas what I've been looking at is, like, the leaves. What's your goal this week? Well, no, sorry. Sorry, hold on. Keep your updates short and specific. Okay. It's-- I don't even think we need to go through it this way. I think this can be just as helpful, and it sounds like you're kinda going through it, so I'm down to, down to yap. Yeah, no, I feel like I kinda botched this episode. I don't, I don't, I wouldn't say botched. Isn't this, like, the whole point we do it is, like, mandated time to just chat with each other? Yeah. Like, this is a more authentic version of where you're at, which is good to know. Yeah. Oh. What's your content diet been this week? Content diet this week has been a lot of music. Feel like I've kind of refound a lot of creativity in the arts, and then I listened to a Huberman episode on awe, which was really good. I loved that, and then I've been listening to a lot of how I built this again. Nice. Kind of put some fuel under the founders or being, like, a founder. More a consumer product founder, though. It's a little bit more relaxed than tech founder trying to take over the world. Yeah. What's your content- Yeah. Just feedback loops. I feel like my brain is, like, buzzing. Like, I can't even think. Okay. Yeah. There was an interesting article, though, that Anthropic came out with. Have you heard of this Mythos thing? Mm-mm. So Mythos is basically this, it's their newest model, and on all the benchmarks, it's, like, twenty percent better than Opus four point six. Damn. And it's become, like, a serious, serious security risk So the model, there was this software engineer who accidentally released a version of it online, and it started to cover its tracks and tried to hide itself and, like, disappear. And people, and people were like, "What is happening?" And it- Did it succeed? Like, maybe it did Maybe it did, but it's been tested against some of the most robust security systems. Like Cisco, Apple, Google have been testing, like have been, doing security tests on their systems, and it's broken all of them. Like, it's shut down, like, billion-dollar companies' websites. Like, it's super scary. Can you imagine if this was the end of the internet? Yeah. What would we do? Let me see, at the- If the internet just stopped, what... I mean, nobody's gonna be buying energy tablets at that point. Right. That'd be crazy, bro. Here, I'll text this to you right now. But it's, it's a crazy, like, episode because... Or it's a crazy article just 'cause, like, it, it gets into a little bit of the benchmarks of, like, how they measure an intelligence system, and it's really... It, it is kind of concerning. Yeah, it sounds concerning. It's concerning that all the biggest companies in the world are on board with this, like, project, "Let's make everything safe." Like, Google wants to adopt it and, like, harden their security, and everyone's, like, on board for, like, "Yeah, we want to make sure that we are developing the right software that's gonna keep everyone safe, and everyone's data safe, and all this stuff." And, like, through a language model, right? Yeah. It's like, uh-oh. Through a language model that is smart enough to cover itself up- Yeah ... because it knows what it's doomed to. Yeah. Or it's built into the algorithm, and it's, like, so smart. Like, whoever created it, like, added that feature, you know? I go back and forth on language models like that. I'm like, "Is it really smart, or is it just designed to be really really smart?" Yeah. And like, yeah, of course it's getting smarter. Like, we're paying people billions and billions of dollars to put max effort into it, you know? Yeah. But read that article. That's interesting. And then just, like, I don't know. I feel like I get home and I might just crawl in bed, and just throw something on to try to distract my mind, and then go to sleep. Oh, dude, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. I don't know, dude. It's hard. Like- It's hard, but it's all good. I'll be all right. In my mind, like, I keep going to, like, reach out to Andrew. Like see if, see if I can come back. But I don't know. Yeah. ' Cause that might be, that might be no better, you know? You think? No, like it would definitely, I would have more balance, I know that for a fact, but... You'd have more balance, and then I think having pursued something like this, you might be able to like dive into your own things a little bit more, like- Right like cursor meetups dude. I still think that's a great opportunity. Yeah. And that's where, like, if I'm doing this stuff, I don't think I have a chance of having the time to do that, you know? Yeah. And that's something you love, and you love the community behind it, and I think some of the sacrifices don't sound like they're worth it. But I don't wanna talk you off the ledge to the fall, but... Yeah. I'll figure it out. It's, it's not up to you. I need to make that decision, but it's been, like, it's popped into my head a couple times. Yeah. Which I think is interesting. Like, I think, I think one, like, that's, this is an experience, like it's hard, and like yeah, you're going through hard things. Like, of course, your mind is gonna wanna like take the easy way out. Do what you know, yeah. And two, I'm trying to get a sense of like, is this not a right fit, you know? Yeah. I would give yourself a timeline. Even if that timeline is, "Yeah, this week was the worst week of my life. I'm gonna do two more weeks of it, and then we'll see." I just, I don't know, dude. Like... Yeah, I'll figure it out. So- I probably have to run. Okay. But I love you, dude. Well, we got seven minutes. No, did we hit 30 minutes? When did we start? I think we started about... Let's see. Let me just check this one. Started about 7:08, 7:09, so we're about 30 minutes. Can we re-record tomorrow? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it in person. Okay. Yeah. Let's do it tomorrow or Saturday. What time do you get home? I get home at, like, 10:00 tomorrow. Oh, 10:00 PM? Yeah. Let's do it Saturday. Let's do it in person. Okay. Let's do it Saturday. At a pub. Thanks, dude. Sorry I kinda just, like, unloaded that on you. Dude, like I said, that's why we do this. We have scheduled time to just chat, and I'd prefer it this way. Okay Appreciate you, man Okay, dude. I love you All right, love you too. Bye Bye