Episode 7: Building With Balance

All right, we're live ... that's right. Heyyo. 30 minutes. Do you wanna set a 30-minute timer? Yeah, I've got one on my watch. Okay. Awesome. I'll start it once we sit. Did Christian shut the door? Will you go check? Yeah. What are you doing, Nim? Yeah. All right. The energy to start right there. Whoo. Okay, this is week, like, seven? Yeah. Almost two months or something? Somewhere around there. Over two months if it's week seven. Nope. Never mind. That kinda glitched me out for a sec. Like, hold on. Did you not hear they changed how many weeks are in each month? Yeah. Each month. There's only three now? Yeah. Wow. How you doing, dude? I'm feeling like I just had a stroke. Did you get a good night last night or- No. Just... I don't even know. Went and played soccer this morning. Might be dehydrated. Here, if you want... Do you want me to grab you some water? No, it's all right. I'll be all right. Nice. Well, awesome. We just finished kind of a pool party session with the family, and, yeah, I've been traveling all week. Yeah. No work. Good to be home. You've been traveling a lot. How is it traveling for work? It's a lot. It's intense. It's, super busy. It's, it's harder to work and get stuff done on my computer, obviously, when you're traveling. Yeah. But it's fun. Yeah. Nothing like in person. Nothing like meeting people, shaking their hand- Yeah ... figuring out- As a customer success, that's probably a huge part of it. Huge. But it's, it's gotta be... When you have as good of a setup as you do over there, it's probably kind of a downgrade on, like, your efficiency flows and- 100%. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough. I have my scripts and stuff up on my screen and... Yeah. That's a tough trade-off. Yeah. Definitely. But it's good to get face time with your customers. Oh, yeah. Have you met any customers that you're like, "Me and this guy are boys"? We launched with RNGD, this week, and their culture is awesome. Really? They're a big, big outfit out of Louisiana and- What makes their culture awesome? They're really enticing the younger crowd- Mm ... into working construction in a unique way, in the sense of they built this... Their headquarters are totally... Like, you'd think you were walking into a tech- Really? ... company. Yeah. That's cool. I always love when a company that's not necessarily tech-focused treats themselves like a tech company. Yeah. I think there's a lot of success in that, in the A/B testing of this and this, and- Totally having, like, a really cool campus type vibe, and- Yes ... kind of making it- That's exactly what they're doing ... really enjoyable to work there. And there's a big workforce problem in construction, so anything- Mm-hmm ... that you can do to entice the younger crowd is really smart. It's huge. And, it was cool to see them doing that. But yeah, really fun. I went to this AI building event this morning, and it was cool 'cause we were gonna host Cafe Cursor today, but we pushed it back a week. It's next Saturday now. That's right. And, I met this guy there. We went to- just me and Will went this morning to advertise and, meet some people. Mm. And we met this guy who was building this email efficiency tool that basically, like, plugged the algorithm- like, an evolving algorithm into your email for A/B testing marketing stuff. Hmm. And it would be like... And it had, like, five different types of emails that they were sending that were constantly improving upon themselves. Really interesting. Super interesting. Yeah. He studied computer science at BYU and, like, had all the math and the formula worked out. BYU breeds a very entrepreneurial and just smart- Yes ... it's like an Ivy League education, but if you're a member of the church, it's, like- Yeah ... 3,000 bucks. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. Like, that's why Silicon Slopes and all that stuff is so booming. Yeah. For sure. Which is cool. It's cool that they do that in Utah. Yeah. Makes me feel stoked about it. Yeah. I know. It's too bad that it's mostly in Utah County. Yeah. I wish some of that would come over into Salt Lake. Sure. But we still have some, some heaters out here. Yeah. Utah's a good spot for innovation, and it's fun. Yeah. It's a great spot. Yeah. Yeah. How's, how's it been going for you? You've had a busy week. I feel like every time we talked you were busy doing something or- Yeah. Just honestly, getting those ads, like, formatted to... 'Cause I needed to make all the ads, then I needed to reformat them with, like, the proper safe zones and do all the creative and the content, and then I had to update the website and get the product all updated and stuff. This blue razz one is so good. Yeah. The blue razz is fire. I love this one. Anyways. But, yeah, it was just a busy week, but it was nice to get it done. And, now I can kind of shift into- So walk me through what you got to Lupo. So I got to Lupo nine different picture ads and two different video ads, and I'm, I'm feeling really strong about them. A lot of the benefit that I presented and I present in the ads is you have an entire case of energy in a little tube. So- It's very on the go, and then I present in, like, the focus, but not too much energy, so you can, like, still kinda sleep. And just- Just a little bit, just kinda. Yeah. Yeah, you can kinda sleep. No. But, I saw the ad for the Red Bull with the case of Red Bull versus this little, cute little nifty type compact- Yeah ... little Third Life. That was good. Yeah, so I'm excited about that. And it's cheaper. And it's cheaper. Yeah. And so, yeah, just a, a lot of stuff like that, and I kind of had this epiphany of I- More cost-effective, I should've said. Yeah. Yeah. I, had this epiphany of I think I'm gonna try to do, like, a targeted campaign to travelers and be like, "You can st- like, this is your workouts on the go." 'Cause- Partner with Tomatic, dude. Yeah, serious. Wouldn't that be cool? They build a custom pocket in one of their backpacks for it. Yeah, that'd be great. And then- They would love that. Yeah, that would be... That, that's a great idea. But I just think that's a really good benefit that I could present, so instead of bringing this big drum or, like, a bunch of cans, like, this gets through TSA no problem. Yeah. And it's just- Nice ... right here. Yeah. Say you're traveling and you've got a big time jump, so you get there and you're just so tired. Pop a tablet in, and then in six hours take another. Nice. 'Cause that's what I think is really nice about, like, the only 60 milligrams of caffeine- Mm-hmm ... is, like, it gets you a little bump, and then there's a lot of the nootropic effect, so you still focus in and have a good time, but you're not so amped up that you crash- Yeah one, and two, you can't sleep- Yeah ... that night. Huge. So I think it's gonna be a fun, fun time. So the ads, you got them to Lupo. Got them to Lupo. Ha- has he started, posting them yet or- Not yet, no. I'm gonna give him the weekend and then call him on Monday. But he, he acknowledged them. He was like, "Sweet, I'm gonna take a look at these," and then I think we'll kind of work in a more collaborative sense, so we'll hop on some Zoom calls and stuff, and I'll kinda see how he works, and then- Awesome he'll train his AI on it. But it's exciting, dude. And it's, it's good. I went to a run club this week, too, at 5:30 AM. I noticed- It's good ... in your advertising you went with more vibrant colors than you have in the past. Talk, talk about that a little. I just think you want to bring energy into it, and I got some feedback from this brand guide... or this brand, consultant that my product looked pretty militaristic, and I didn't really want it to be militaristic, and I want it to be somewhat androgynous. And so, like, the vibrant pink and electric orange and k- kind of those really bright colors, I think- Mm-hmm ... are gonna serve me better, and they're just more fun. They're more playful. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, at least for right now, too. Yeah. 'Cause you could always do, like, a one-off matted gray- Yeah ... black color. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. But, Charcoal ... yeah, I wanted it to pop, and yeah Yeah, it does get your attention. It does mentally, yeah It definitely makes you like, forces you to look at it more- Yeah which is cool. Nice. But I also rebranded the website, and I f- wanted them to match perfectly. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Using those bright colors. But yeah, no, it's been good. I've, been writing a bunch of different ads, and maybe I'll start presenting some of those in the- Yeah ... meetings We should start, we should start each episode with you presenting your latest ad. My latest ad ideas. Let's see. Or doing like a little... You know how in podcasts they do, "This podcast is brought to you by Third Life." Yeah. Should do that. We can do a little ad with the... That would be funny, and then pull in some references of, " Man, I was just really having a hard time at work, and then I discovered Third Life, and just now I can- Yeah focus on things," and, or something. Like, bring the story into it. Something like that, yeah. No, that would be fun. Well, what's the story from your week? What, Oh, man, we went to the weirdest place. It was called Rocky Mount in, North Carolina, and there's this weird underbelly in the South of just- Really? I don't know how to explain it. It just feels... It feels like there was this culture that existed there, which there was, this horrible culture of, like, slavery and whatnot that still kind of feels like it's there a little bit- Oh ... even though it's not. But, yeah, we went to this town, Rocky Mount, and like a- all these houses were abandoned. They were big, beautiful homes that were just, like, overgrown and weird and nobody living in them. Creepy. There was just like old plantation houses that had been, like, remodeled like 50 years ago and then just abandoned. It was weird. That's so weird. There was a movie theater that was abandoned. Like, like, everything was boarded up. Were there people walking around? The grocery store... No, nothing. What, what were you guys doing there? There was this one area that had been, like, rebuilt, and repurposed. They repurposed this old mill for, kind of an e- event space, work space, food. There were some restaurants there. But even that was pretty empty. Yeah. But it was all new. It just f- was so weird. It felt like a, like apocalyptic, post-nuclear town. Huh. But- The South, I for some reason, like I don't really feel like there's a lot of, like, haunting in Utah, but for some reason the South feels very haunted. Mm-hmm. And like the- For sure heavy brush, the thick air- Yeah ... hot air, and then just, like- Yeah ... a really dark history. So green over there. Yeah. So green. So different. That's the biggest contrast from Utah to the South is just there's trees everywhere. Everywhere. And there's little stuff that's really nice. Like, we went to Raleigh, we went to Durham, we went to New Orleans, but in, in Raleigh and going into Durham, th- there's a lot of really nice details. Like in the medians on the freeway there's like a bunch of trees. Mm. And it's all... This grass is all cut in this beautiful way- Yeah ... and there are flowers, and, like, who maintains their medians, you know, in between- Yeah ... the freeway? It's serious. It's beautiful, you know? Like- Yeah ... really appreciated that. And yeah, just, just a lot of travel this week. But yeah, it's good to, it's good to feel like I'm starting to kinda grasp things and, like, get in the flow and understand what the problems are with our customers and the, and the problem we're trying to solve, which is good. Yeah. Yeah. There was a moment with, with the CEO this week where he basically, like, lost his shit kinda twice. And, one of them was I booked a hotel that he told me to book, and he's like, "Yeah, book this place in Raleigh." I book it, and then, like, we get to the night of and it's late. We've been working all day, and he starts driving to D- Durham. And I'm like, "Aren't we going to Raleigh?" And he's like, "Oh, you booked the one in Raleigh?" He's like, "We're supposed to book the one in Durham." And he, like, got all frustrated, and I was just like, "Hey, man. Like, I booked what you told me, you know?" And then we got there, and he kinda realized that he told me in Raleigh, and he, like, apologized. But he was, like, clearly frustrated about it. Yeah. And I was kinda just like, "Come on, bro." Yeah. Like, one, doesn't matter. I'll call them. I'll try to get a refund. Happy to do that for you, but, like, dude, you fucked up. Like, don't get frustrated about this. And then there was this moment before we went to... We had this big presentation with the executive team at that weird place in, Rocky Mount. And, he hadn't prepared. And I was driving, and he didn't ask me to prepare. He's like, "I got this one. I'm gonna be leading the charge on this." And I prepared, like, a slide deck for us, and then basically, like, the content wasn't prepared of, like, what was open. We were gonna walk through the platform and stuff. And he was, like, banging on the door like, "Fuck," like, "This is my worst nightmare," like, 'cause we had, like, five minutes before we were going into this meeting. So kind of like a rage head. Like, losing his shit, bro. And I was just like, "Dude, relax." Yeah. Like, "You're 40 years old. Like, be a man." Yeah. If you wanted help, like, ask me to... Like, I would've stayed up late and helped you prep this stuff, you know? Yeah. And then I'm driving the whole time, so, like- It's like- ... figure it out, dude. But that was really- So- That was really frustrating. Like, I need to talk to him about that, 'cause that really bothered me. Yeah. I've dealt with, like, emotionally volatile people before, and it wasn't like... The first one was kinda like, "Fuck," like, "We booked the wrong hotel." He wasn't mad at me. Like, he wasn't yelling at me. But he was just- But he was just frustrated with the situation, right? Same with the other one. Like, it wasn't directed towards me, but I was in the car with him. Yeah. And he was, like, clearly losing his shit- Yeah ... a little bit, like, not handling it well, like, freaking out. Yeah. And I was just like, "Dude, you gotta, you gotta be better than that." Yeah. Like, I do not. You can't succumb to the pressure if you're gonna put yourself in these high pressure situ- situations. Right. And, like, I just joined the team, dude. Yeah. Like- Like, I'm still kind of a stranger to you ... I don't wanna see that stuff. Yeah. Also, there's nothing more embarrassing than losing your temper- Yeah ... in my opinion, especially in, like, a workplace environment. It's like, come on. Yeah. And I, I get it. I get the intensity. I get the pressure. I get the urgency. Losing your shit over something like that, like grow up. Yeah. I was pretty unimpressed with that, to be honest with you, and it made me kind of question things. I started getting some anxiety about it on the trip. I'm like, "What am I doing here?" Yeah. But, it's really interesting to see someone operating at that high of a level with the network that he has, and it kind of felt like a privileged kid would act. Really? And I learned some more information on Tristan, and he was like... He started working at the family company in Berea when he was 15, and he was, like, getting groomed to be the vice president. Mm. Or to be the... Like, run this company, and then they sold, but he was already a VP in the company when they sold. Mm. So he cashed out, like probably a couple of million dollars. Created equity. Yeah. Mm. And he has this nice house in Nashville, and I was kind of like, "I'm getting privileged kid vibes from you, dude." Yeah. Like, I don't like that at all. Yeah. You know? Especially in a realm of construction that's so, like, you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you get it done. Yeah. To then kind of be playing that card, but then not actually having it is interesting. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see what comes of that. I do wanna talk to him though and just softly say like, "Hey, I didn't, I didn't appreciate that. I'm an empathetic person." Like, we didn't prepare as well as we should have, but you gotta hold it together a little bit more- Yeah ... 'cause- Tighten up ... I don't like seeing that, you know? But those are kind of my thoughts from this trip, which, which were interesting. And it wasn't... I talked with one of the other founders of the company, Alfredo, and Alfredo basically said, "Tristan's really intense, but overall he's very level-headed." Okay. And so the fact that it wasn't... Like, if it was directed at me like, "You messed up on our hotel. Like what?" You would've been like, "Hey." I would've been like, "Dude, no thanks." Yeah. Like, "Go look at the Slack message." But it wasn't like that, and so I think part of, like, my empathetic personality is maybe leaning into that a bit too much. But it did really bother me too- Yeah ... you know? Yeah. So those are kind of my thoughts from the trip. Didn't mean to just like trauma dump on you, but- No, that's good. That's why we do it. Yeah. That's gonna be, It's gonna be interesting to see if there is a point in, of success in the company when it's not so, like, fight or flight that that kind of calms out- Yeah ... and goes away. Yeah. For sure. Just as you guys get more clients and more- Yeah more sustained revenue, and then can kind of build, keep building. Yeah. But in a way that's not so like, " If we lose one client, we really feel it." Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think... I actually talked to Dad about this and, and Dad put it the best way. He would just... His advice was, I would talk to him about it, say that that kind of behavior doesn't motivate you. Mm. It actually does the opposite. Yeah. And communicate that very carefully. Yeah. So... And it's, he's totally right, you know? And I wonder how other founders- are in situations like that. Like, I wonder if- Yeah ... Musk was just- Oh, I bet he is ... ruthless. And I'm sure he was, and that's where kind of I feel like kind of a softie, you know? Mm. It's like he wasn't even yelling at me. Like, he was- Yeah ... he was just mad at the situation, you know? And Musk, from this book that I'm reading, Elon Musk, The Book of Elon, he sa- he has this quote in it and he's like, " For people that words hurt you a lot, like they've never been punched in the face." 'Cause getting punched in the face is a lot worse than, is a lot worse than, like, someone yelling at you. Yeah. You know, like I would prefer someone yelling at me over getting punched in the face- Yeah ... any day. And I think part of that mentality does kinda carry over and I'm like, "It's not a big deal." You know? Yeah. I need to like buck up and w- it is what it is. I'll talk to him and like see how it, how he acts in the future, but, just kinda interesting, so. That is super interesting. Yeah. And I think we are pretty sensi- I think I'm generally kind of a sensitive guy when it comes to that stuff. Yeah. Like, even in my past job with previous bosses when they would like ride me about something and kinda say some stuff I didn't appreciate, I would hang onto that stuff- Yeah ... you know? And it's hard not to. I mean, it's human to. Yeah. But I totally get you. I definitely think like if I was in a state... E- even with, like, people that I've given Third Love to, if they say something that's like not quite my ideal and it's like somewhat slanderous, I'm like- Yeah "Ah." And then it j- just kinda sits with you and you kinda hate them for it. Yeah. Yeah. But- It's interesting, but it's good to be able to separate it and also listen to feedback in a honest way. And it, it's hard to make a environment or a persona where people think they can give you honest feedback without hurting your feelings, but I think that that's super vital to actually... Like, the fall of a dictator is when they've killed everybody that told them the truth because it wasn't what they wanted to hear, and so then they think that they have like the best nukes and can compete in, against the US, but then in reality their nuclear program's like five years behind. Yeah. But they're being told that they're competing neck and neck, when in reality it's not even close. Huh. That's kinda what happened with the Cold War and Stalin. Interesting. Yeah. One, one question that I would love to ask you and get your thoughts on, kind of as you build this company, a- a- from a founder's perspective, is in the society that we live in in America, the capitalists like push, push, push, everything. Like, if you're gonna get anything done you have to have urgency, you have to have like maniacal sense of urgency- Yeah ... to get stuff done 'cause if you're not working hard, someone else is working harder and like they're gonna... If you have a truly good idea, like someone else is gonna steal it and then- Yeah you know, whatever. Well, how do you feel about like the culture that you wanna create and how are you gonna keep that urgency with like more of a level head kinda- Yeah ... mentality? I'd... One of the, like, ideas that I've really been focusing on is building with balance- And I know that there is definitely, it's good to be out of balance when you're building and you need that urgency. But also, I'm kind of going a different route where I'm, like, bootstrapping a company. And if you talk to anybody that's actually bootstrapped a company and didn't seek external funding or have, like, $2 million to just throw into it, then they often build quite a bit slower. They build, like, a lot more loyalty. It's a lot more of, like, "Oh, yeah, we're having our friend group over, and then we're gonna have our friends all invite one person every month or so." And it, like, kind of builds organically, but it's not, like, meteoric. You're not- Hmm ... you're not all- all of a sudden having 10,000 subscribers. And so I think as that, as it's just me, I wanna build with balance in, I don't... I can, like, do this the way I want it to be, and I think one of my driving forces was I want to make fun for my life. Yeah. And I wanna make the place that I work really fun, and I wasn't seeing that with, like, kind of the traditional corporate areas. But I know a ton of startups, like even the startup I worked for in Logan, it was, like, a really relaxed community, and it was super fun working there, and they sold for, like, 60 million bucks. Yeah. So there's, like, this huge gap in, I see my life as I don't need as much as, like other founders do, and I'm, like- Hmm ... okay in kind of sacrificing some of the profit for a lot more of the fun. Hmm. If that makes sense. Yeah. That is interesting. I think that's really interesting perspective in our s- in our society right now, because basically anyone that makes it to the top, there are principles and characteristics of these people- Yeah that are pretty standard. Yeah. Like, they are all pretty maniacal about their time. Yeah. They all are relentless, like their culture's pretty relentless. They're sleeping on the floor in the factory. Yeah. They're, they're pushing, like, seven days a week, you know. Yeah. And I think that's a nice perspective to hear to people who want more balance because a, like, you hear, you hear the success stories about the Elon Musks or, you know, like anyone on David Senra's podcast, about the people that truly changed the world. Yeah. But you can still have an impact and do a lot of good in the world without being the most impactful person- Totally ... in your field. Well, I mean, you hear about so many- W- well, better yet, you don't hear about so many companies, but then you go and you're driving through the nicest neighborhood and you're like, "What do they do?" And they're like, "Oh, they started this, like, little ice creamery- Yeah ... that got really big in St. George, and they have three locations open." Yeah. And I'm like, "Three locations affords that?" Yeah. Or, like, there was this guy up in Logan who was neighbors with one of my, entrepreneurship professors, and he was, like, 16 when he started this, like, nutritional supplement droppers, and he was- Was it Mio, or what was it? No, it... You've never heard of him. Yeah. Like, you've never heard of him, and this kid, like $10 million in his bank account. Really? And it's like, oh, y- like, there's so much money to be made, and you don't have to be the most popular and most successful to make a really good life for yourself. And something Scott Galloway says is, "It's better to... Or, "The best spot to be is wealthy and..." Oh, what's the word? Wealthy and anonymous. Yeah. He said, "The worst spot to be is- Anonymous and broke ... or is famous and broke." Huh. And so I think you can, you can be in this sphere where you are gleaning a lot of the upside, but you don't really have to, like, be the guy who's sleeping on the floor and stuff. Yeah. I think that there's still a lot, a lot of prosperity in that realm. Yeah. Yeah. It would be interesting, w- two thoughts there. It would be w- first was it would be interesting to see, to get to know the founders of these companies that are thriving and exploding right now, the Crumbles, the Just Ingredients, the, you know, pick any, David Bar, like, pick any off your list, IQBAR, and, and really get to understand these founders and how they operate- Yeah to see what their real characteristics are compared to... I mean, maybe all of those were good examples of, like, people that aren't out of the atmosphere, but, like, running reasonable, reasonable, like, really- Yeah ... huge companies that are creating a lot of, like, arguably generational wealth- Totally ... and what their operating principles are versus, like, the mega billionaires, you know? Yeah. And I wonder if there's a, a huge culture differ- or, like, charac- uh, personality difference in those CEOs. But- Yeah ... like, you hear that, like, most CEOs, especially in Silicon Valley, they're, like, psychopaths. Yeah. Like, clinically. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Like, a lot of the C-suite people, they just, like- Yeah whack. Yeah. And they- And they d- just take drugs and- Honestly, like, a desire- Yeah ... yeah, for human empathy and, like... But yeah. The other thought, too, just real quick on that, was, I was thinking it would be fun if we kind of expanded this podcast into, like... Obviously, we record once a week, me and you, but we should start including more people on it. Yeah. I think it'd be fun to interview Dad I think it'd be fun to have, like- Rubes, Colin ... Rubes on, Colin, and then also, like, really put the pressure on us a little bit and start interviewing people kind of outside of our realm- Yeah ... that we're interested in. Like, how fun would that be to start a podcast in Salt Lake where we go talk to, you know- Yeah like, eventually maybe we go talk to Ryan Smith with Qualtrics and, like, w- figure out what- Yeah, that'd be cool ... or, or, like, not that I wanna do, like, a founder's podcast or anything, but just people that are interesting. Like, the Just Ingredients person, it'd be fascinating- Yeah ... to talk to them. Would be cool. Get their insights. I, I... And we can start small. I think it would be fun to, to, like, collaborate on, on an interview and, like, kind of a podcast. 'Cause I, I do love these, like, journalistic, episodes that we do for ourselves mostly, but I think it would be really fun to post something and just into the void. Like- Yeah. And just see. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I do love long-form media. I think it's good for you. I think it's good for people to have conversations like this, and I think it forces you to learn how to communicate better and express yourself. And putting more pressure on us in that way, where we kind of pull people in from outside of our circle even, would force us to get better at it. Yeah. And it would kind of amplify our, our growth in that. Yeah, and I think we'd learn a lot. There's... Utah's, again, kind of what we were talking about earlier, it's a great spot. There's a lot of prosperity here, and I think there's a lot of people that know how to tap into that prosperity. And it would be interesting, too, to, to interview the successes in business, but then also interview, like, just the successes in life. Like- Yeah ... there's a lot of people, like y- I think about the Sontags, and it's like, yeah, they have got it made. Yeah. And they run, like, a company that you've never even heard about that does playgrounds. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. You know? It's like you don't... You, you can strike gold without having to be the biggest house on the hill. Yeah. And- And I think it's just a matter of perspective. Yeah. And it'd be fun to get. It would be fun to talk to those people. And kind of the whole reason that we've done this is to get better at communicating, and with someone that I feel so comfortable with, I don't feel that same pressure that I would with almost a stranger or someone that I haven't talked to in a while. Yeah. And so I'm not, I'm not feeling the pressure of that situation to really improve. And we could put more pressure on each other to make these podcasts great with the format and come with different stuff, but maybe that would be an easy way to kind of force ourselves to improve, and grow, grow a little bit quicker- Yeah as we do these. I don't know if you're interested in that. Yeah. It sounds fun. Cool. Getting more people in the room. Mm-hmm. Start small, see how it goes. Yeah. Refine our craft. I like that. ' Cause you have a really interesting perspective in life. You're launching a company. I just joined as a founding member of a new company in AI and whatnot, and I'm still navigating my path, you know? Like, I haven't... I'm committed to this place for now, but like kind of I want... I still wanna be able to do stuff and, like, have freedom to, like, live my life. Like, I'm not who... I'm not myself. I- like, at work I feel like I've been working so much lately that I've just been neglecting a lot of different other areas. Yeah, your personality. And I wanna, like, pursue those more and create time- Yeah ... to do that. I, kind of a philosophy I adhere to is your personality is not who you are alone. It's accumulation of who you are with everybody that you know. So for instance, my personality with you is different than my personality with Jade, which is different than my personality with Dan, which is different than my personality with Ian, which is different than my personality with my work friends. And there's kind of this cloud that is you, and each little person and interaction that you have or hobby that you pursue is like a little water droplet in this cloud. And so to build out your whole personality, you need to explore all these little water droplets, and you need to cultivate them and keep giving them steam so that they can get bigger or it's a very much a use it or lose it. Mm. Like for instance, there are people that I don't see anymore that would bring out a super different part of my personality, and I'm, I just haven't cultivated that. And so that personality is kind of dying. I really like that. But- I really like that metaphor ... and I don't think that that's a good or bad thing, you know? I just think it's a thing. Yeah. And you can develop your personality with so many different people, but you... If you, say you pick one water droplet and you just give all your steam to that, then eventually it's gonna, like, fall down. Huh. And then you're left with- Huh. Then what, what are you left with? I don't know if that analogy s- con- continues it- What? You're- ... but ... you're just left in mud. Yeah. There you go. No, I, I do like that. Like a I do like that analogy. I think it's interesting from the, It ties directly into you're an accumulation of the people you spend your most- Yeah ... the most time with, you know? Yeah. And it's also a mix of a jack of all trades is a master of none, but often better than a master of one. Yeah. Like, you don't, you don't wanna isolate yourself to one thing. Yeah. And I think to make it to the top and be- You have to be good at a lot ... world renowned, you have to be good at a lot, but I think that the people that really make it to the top of their respected field, I don't think that they have good balance. Yeah. I think a lot of them are, like, the one person that was willing to dedicate every atom of their body to this. Huh. And I think that there's, like- I have this notion that I don't wanna be famous, but I wanna be small town famous. Yeah ... in the sense that everybody in the community that I interact with every day knows me, and we can- Yeah have conversation. And, like, you're somewhat of a celebrity, but you're not getting interviewed- Yeah ... by Oprah. Yeah. You know? And I think that- It's like you've got this small town acclaim and you've got respect ... and I think the way to do that is kind of what we've been talking about. Like, you need to put the pressure on yourself a little bit more. Yeah. Like forcing us to interview people or go talk to other people. Yeah. I think that would kind of put us in a position where we feel more comf- comfortable in s- like, high-pressure situations. Yeah. 'Cause really it comes down to how you handle yourself under pr- under pressure. Yeah. I, I think that there's something huge to that. Totally. You know? And whether you're small town famous or big town famous, like, your ability to take pain, I think, is r- directly correlates with how- Well, you get that ... like, people's loyalty to you, people's respect for you, your influence in your community. Like, all- Yeah ... of that stuff, you know. It's interesting. Where do you think au- like, authenticity ranks in people's respect for you? Oh, I think it's huge. I think it's huge too. Yeah, I think it's huge. Authenticity in the, in, in the, in the way of trustworthiness and honesty and- Well, and just being who they are. I feel like there are people that I don't... I wouldn't say I particularly like, but I respect a lot- Mm because they're just exactly who they are. Yeah. They're not faking it for anybody. Yeah. And I think that that's a super honorable quality in somebody. Huh. It's just like they are who they are, and I, I respect that. I like that. Yeah, they're not trying to do s- be something that they're not. Yeah. But it's hard to cultivate, you know? It's hard to not tailor- Fall for traps or- Yeah ... yeah, all that. But yeah, I think, Is that 30 minutes? That's 30 minutes. Nice. Yeah. Sweet. Well, I feel like that was a good, good episode. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's your content diet? Let's end. Um, my content diet this week was I was working through this, Elad Gil book called High Growth Handbook, and then also a little bit of The Book of Elon. And, I've been listening to Kendrick a lot. Really? I think that Humble album might be one of my favorite albums of all time. That's such a b- No skip album, 100%. Yeah. That was the marathon- But once you get into the lyrics a little bit, it's kind of... I don't know, like, the cultural differences between, like, white people and Black people is really interesting. Like, in one of the songs, he's basically talking about how, like, Mexicans and Black people are, like, the real Israelites according to the Bible, which could be true. Like, I don't know. I haven't studied the Bible, but I think, like, what message are you trying to send here? Yeah. And I felt kinda weird listening to it, like, damn- Call me Latino Mo is this guy, like, talking trash on white people? Yeah. You know? And then, like, there are other songs where he's, like, very, like, "This is for everyone. I love people," like, all this stuff. Yeah. But it was kinda just interesting. I'm like, "What am I-" There's kind of a dichotomy here. Yeah Like, I love this music so much, but like, what are you saying? That like you're the real child of Jesus- Yeah ... and like... Isn't the line, "Don't call me Black, no mo'"? Yeah. Um, "We're the real Israelites- Yeah ... or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but like i- the priest that calls him, and he plugs into the song at the beginning of that song. It's crazy. I know. He's like basically just preaching about that, and like, It's funny and I don't know, maybe it's true, but- I think Kendrick's probably one of those guys that's a little bit unbalanced, but it's made him so incredibly great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, he's a genius. He's a genius. Like, a creative genius. He's an absolute genius. His music just hits so different. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jay and I have been listening to Isaiah Rashad this week for a bit. Well, I don't know if I'll post this one publicly, 'cause I talked about slavery and how- ... Kendrick hates white people. Yeah. I don't think we should post this one publicly. No, I- I think we refine our craft a little bit. I think we do like a- No, I, I- We like- haven't been posting any of these except for us ... six episodes of... We listen to it every time and we, like, have things that we really wanna get better at before we even bring, like, Dad on, and then we bring Dad on, kind of trial it, and then we bring- I th- I think we just go full steam. I don't think we... I think we bring Dad on next week. Okay. Yeah. I think, I, because, dude, like, that's perfect practice, and then we, we take that- Yeah ... and then we do another one with him. Yeah. You know? Yeah. No, I like that. I d- I don't know if I'm super down for, like, the business moguls of Salt Lake. Yeah. I think I'd prefer to do, like, like, people in our lives that are cool and, like, kinda get their story and just kinda figure it out. Interesting. More- I think that could be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. I obviously am down to start there. Kind of a full, full bio of like, "Well, what was your childhood like?" Or whatever. Yeah Of, like, the people that have made an impact on our lives- Yeah ... in a fun way. And I, I think even framing it as, like, not a podcast, but like, "Hey, we're working on this project where we're collecting thoughts of people that we really love and care about- Yeah and we, like, film it and record it. Or would you be interested in, like, having a conversation?" Yeah. And just people that we're curious about. Max and Lily are down. I've- Yeah ... talked to them and they both are down. Yeah, I think that would be great. Max and Lily- And, like, dude ... I think would be really fun. Let's, let's not make it about us at all. Like, I really wanna be, like- Get better at questions ... get better at questions and be in those pressure situations where like, ah, the pressure's on, but I can still come through, and like- Yeah ... so, like, selfishly, I wanna get better at that, but also I'm really curious about, like, what's it like being a parent and then being pregnant and- Yeah you know. And it doesn't even have to be, like, super current. I think you would just get to know the people that you love a lot more- Yeah ... through these. Yeah. Yeah. How often do you get to sit down and have a conversation like this with someone? Yeah. That's the point. That's the magic right there. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I like that. I think that's- Yeah ... a bread and butter is like- Yeah ... are these people that are doing really cool stuff and they can teach us something, and then we just ask and ask and ask. Yeah. Conversations. Yeah, I like it. That'd be a great name for the... Conversations. Conversations? Yeah. I like that. Cool. Converseapiens. Converseral Boys. I'm just kidding. Okay, that third life got me buzzing. Does it? Can I get some allergy stuff?